Pete Enns & The Bible for Normal People

Interview with Megan DeFranza: The Bible and Intersex Believers

In this episode of The Bible for Normal People Podcast, Pete and Jared revisit their discussion with Megan DeFranza about what it means to be intersex, what the Bible has to say about gender, and how we can responsibly shape our theology in ways that include everyone as they explore the following questions:

  • What is intersex?
  • What’s the difference between being intersex and transgender?
  • How has the church thought differently about sex and gender throughout history?
  • What got Megan DeFranza interested in gender and sex difference?
  • What does Augustine’s City of God have to say about intersex folks?
  • What does Jesus have to say about sex difference and gender?
  • Why is it important to look at the whole Bible (not just Genesis) to develop our ideas about sex and gender?
  • What does the Bible say about people who do not fit into the sex or gender binary?
  • What do ancient rabbis have to say about gender?
  • How does the Bible continually push for inclusion?
  • What sort of things has Megan DeFranza seen people in the church afraid of when it comes to sex difference?
  • What do eunuchs tell us about the understanding of gender and sex difference in biblical times?
  • What is faithful improvisation? 

Tweetables

Pithy, shareable, less-than-280-character statements from Megan DeFranza you can share. 

  • “It doesn’t say, ‘God made male and female and anything else is a result of the fall’ and yet that’s a very quick theological move that many Christians make.” @MKDeFranza
  • “We’re not called to be first century Christians in Rome, or in Corinth, or in Ephesus; we’re called to be twenty-first century Christians living where we live.” @MKDeFranza
  • “I think we’re afraid of being outsiders ourselves.” @MKDeFranza
  • “You don’t get to have solidarity with the marginalized and popularity with the powerful. It doesn’t work like that.” @MKDeFranza
  • “If we’re not already having these conversations in our churches you will be next year or the year after that.” @MKDeFranza
  • “We’re so afraid of doing something wrong that often times we do nothing.” @MKDeFranza
  • “We have to do our biblical study and our thinking theologically about what it means to be human and what it means to be a faithful Christian in a way that includes everyone in the community.” @MKDeFranza

Mentioned in This Episode

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Changing Your Mind About the Bible with Jen Hatmaker

Interview with Jen Hatmaker: Changing Your Mind About the Bible: A Survivor’s Guide

January 29, 2018

In this episode of The Bible for Normal People Podcast, Pete and Jared talk with Jen Hatmaker about what can happen, emotionally and relationally, when you change your mind about the Bible, and they explore the following questions:

  • How do we survive changing our minds about the bible and still keep our faith intact?
  • What did Jen Hatmaker’s upbringing teach her about questions and pushing back on her faith?
  • How did changing her mind about human sexuality in the church put Jen in a position of public scrutiny?
  • Did the backlash against her theology shift come from personal realtionships or industry?
  • Were there any surprises about the reaction to Jen’s change in position?
  • Does Jen feel like she was treated any differently as a female Christian leader, as opposed to a man?
  • What was it like to walk her church through becoming an affirming church?
  • As she has gone through this process of healing, what insights has she learned about the people that lashed out at leaders who begin to ask hard questions?
  • What does changing your mind do for your sense of safe certainty?
  • What was the key exposure that God wrote into her story that started breaking down Jen’s certainties?
  • What passages in the Bible caused theological shifts for Jen Hatmaker?
  • What does Jesus’ teaching about “fruit of the spirit” mean to Jen?
  • What did Jen see when she looked at the fruit of the non-affirming Christian tree?
  • What role did biblical interpretation play in Jen Hatmaker’s theological shift?
  • How does it feel to be on this journey, in partnership with the Holy Spirit?
  • How has Jen found nourishment through this experience?
  • What words of encouragement does Jen have for others who are going through this experience?

Tweetables

Pithy, shareable, less-than-280-character statements you can share.

  • “I didn’t grow up in an environment where questions were asked, much less welcomed. I didn’t even know we could do that. I had no idea that we had permission to press hard on our faith.” @JenHatmaker
  • “I have myself permission to become a critical thinker about faith, about the Bible, about cultural understandings of all of those things.” @JenHatmaker
  • “The misfits find their way to one another.” @JenHatmaker
  • “Just when I thought I was leaving a structure where I was banished and doomed to wonder the wilderness by myself the rest of my life, I get out to the wilderness and find it fairly populated and it’s kind of wild out here…There’s great joy out here.” – @JenHatmaker
  • “If it feels like it’s the end of the world, it’s only the end of one world. If you’re in the season of lonely, just stay the course.” @JenHatmaker

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